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I am a California and Oregon state Licensed Marriage & Family Therapist with over 30 years of experience in a wide variety of settings, working with differing populations and ages. I have helped others who are looking to start or maintain their healing journey or are experiencing obstacles such as depression, anxiety, relationship conflict, addictions and trauma (including multi-generational trauma). My current clinical focus is on individual adult men and women from various ethnic backgrounds. What has become abundantly clear to me, especially since working within a Telehealth format which reaches people far and wide, is that no matter where we are from we all have in common the needs for purpose, meaning and value in our lives.
Those who have worked with me on BetterHelp know that I pay close attention to words, love metaphors, and use humor when it is appropriate to do so. My style is warm and actively engaging and my approach pulls from various sources including solution-focused, dialectical behavior, narrative, and experiential therapies.
I can't believe it has been 4 years already since I joined BH. I have developed a model "in honor" of this milestone. I hope it brings clarity to you as to how I may approach your situation. I look forward to meeting you:
I - Am I making it all about me? codependency? narcissism?
I - Interpretations & Assumptions
Patience
Paying Attention - and Mindfulness
Petrified - including fear of feeling better
Physical - health, including its cause for MH issues
Projection - onto others & forecasting
Proof - of assumptions
Purpose
Self-Awareness
Self-Sabotage
Substances
Support System
"Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it."
― Aubrey de Grey
“To live a creative life, we must lose our fear of being wrong.”
~ Joseph Chilton Pearce
Additional areas of focus:Addictions, Family conflicts, Anger management, Self esteem, Career difficulties, Bipolar disorder, Coping with life changes, Compassion fatigue, Abandonment, Attachment issues, Blended family issues, Codependency, Communication problems, Control issues, Divorce and separation, Drug and alcohol addiction, Emptiness, Family of origin issues, Family problems, Forgiveness, Guilt and shame, Impulsivity, Isolation / loneliness, Life purpose, Midlife crisis, Mood disorders, Multicultural concerns, Narcissism, Post-traumatic stress, Self-love, Social anxiety and phobia, Women's issues, Workplace issues
Services offered
Video
Phone
Messaging
License information
CA LMFT 28654
OR LMFT T1997
Reviews
These quotes represent just a few of the many positive reviews that we have received for Joy Nussen. We don't pay anyone to provide their review and they are all made voluntarily. Some people's experience receiving therapy with BetterHelp might be different.
very good communicator and i like her
Written on Nov 18, 2024 after therapy with Joy for 1 month on issues concerning depression, stress, anxiety, relationship issues, family conflicts, intimacy-related issues, and coping with life changes
Only a couple sessions working with Joy as of this review, but I’m really enjoying our time together and very optimistic, eager and excited to continue!
Written on Oct 13, 2024 after therapy with Joy for 3 weeks on issues concerning depression, stress, anxiety, family conflicts, trauma and abuse, self esteem, anger management, bipolar disorder, and adhd
I love working with you.
Written on Oct 05, 2024 after therapy with Joy for 3 months on issues concerning depression, stress, anxiety, relationship issues, family conflicts, grief, parenting issues, self esteem, coping with life changes, coaching, compassion fatigue, and adhd
Joy was very kind!
Written on Sep 15, 2024 after therapy with Joy for 2 weeks on issues concerning depression, stress, anxiety, addictions, family conflicts, trauma and abuse, grief, intimacy-related issues, sleeping disorders, self esteem, anger management, career difficulties, bipolar disorder, coping with life changes, and adhd
Joy is AMAZING! I’m so grateful I matched with her. She has helped me grown and learn about myself and relationships with others. I highly recommend her!
Written on Jul 21, 2024 after therapy with Joy for 1 year and 1 month on issues concerning relationship issues, and self esteem
My therapist is great. She is well versed and has a lot of experience. She is also very resourceful. Whenever I have a problem or issue, she will send me resources that can help me outside of our counseling sessions. I just wish I could schedule sooner appts. Although, when I message her and let her know that I need something sooner, she will message me back to let me know if there is a cancellation or spot available sooner
Written on Jul 10, 2024 after therapy with Joy for 9 months on issues concerning depression, stress, anxiety, family conflicts, eating disorders, parenting issues, self esteem, coaching, and adhd
Wise and experienced.
Down to earth intelligent and caring human.
I am grateful to have found her. :)
Written on May 21, 2024 after therapy with Joy for 2 weeks on issues concerning depression, stress, anxiety, relationship issues, family conflicts, trauma and abuse, sleeping disorders, self esteem, career difficulties, bipolar disorder, coaching, compassion fatigue, and adhd
She’s awesome, listens and is very helpful. She has a lot of experience and it shows
Written on May 19, 2024 after therapy with Joy for 2 weeks on issues concerning depression, stress, anxiety, addictions, relationship issues, family conflicts, trauma and abuse, grief, intimacy-related issues, and coping with life changes
Joy is easy to talk to, responsive, and gives good feedback. I feel more grounded when I end a session with Joy.
Written on May 09, 2024 after therapy with Joy for 2 months on issues concerning depression, stress, anxiety, relationship issues, career difficulties, and coping with life changes
Joy is very insightful into the areas of my life that I need some guidance on. I enjoy our sessions together because they are helpful.
Written on Feb 18, 2024 after therapy with Joy for 9 months on issues concerning self esteem, and career difficulties
I went through 4 other counselors in 6 months before I started working with Joy, that was over a year ago. Not only has she been easy to work with, I feel like she genuinely cares about my well-being. Highly recommend
Written on Jan 31, 2024 after therapy with Joy for 1 year and 3 months on issues concerning relationship issues, and family conflicts
After two sessions I am feeling better. Thank goodness. Our talks focus on the practical things and the internal processes that I am working through. It's my first experience with therapy and I am very optimistic and pleased with the help I am getting.
Written on Jan 06, 2024 after therapy with Joy for 2 weeks on issues concerning relationship issues, trauma and abuse, grief, intimacy-related issues, sleeping disorders, and coping with life changes
Joy has been wonderful in starting my therapy journey. She has very insightful words of support, is kind and understanding. I look forward to continuing this journey in such good hands.
Written on Jan 04, 2024 after therapy with Joy for 3 weeks on issues concerning depression, stress, anxiety, relationship issues, trauma and abuse, sleeping disorders, self esteem, anger management, and adhd
Joy really cares about me, and gives me excellent advice.
Written on Dec 08, 2023 after therapy with Joy for 3 weeks on issues concerning depression, stress, anxiety, career difficulties, and bipolar disorder
Joy is a fantastic therapist who truly listens and is attentive to her patients’ needs. She knows the correct questions to ask and will work with you to truly resolve the issues you may bring up. Don’t know how she does it but it works!! I recommend Joy to anyone and everyone.
Written on Sep 13, 2023 after therapy with Joy for 2 months on issues concerning depression, stress, anxiety, relationship issues, trauma and abuse, grief, eating disorders, sleeping disorders, self esteem, bipolar disorder, coping with life changes, and adhd
Joy has been such a joy to have as my therapist. I struggled a lot with looming doubt and being all over the place, but now there's joy in my life! I feel like I can finally breathe and be at peace with myself as a person. Joy is great. Choose joy.
Written on Aug 23, 2023 after therapy with Joy for 3 weeks on issues concerning depression, stress, anxiety, relationship issues, family conflicts, trauma and abuse, self esteem, and adhd
Written on Jul 19, 2023 after therapy with Joy for 3 months on issues concerning stress, anxiety, relationship issues, trauma and abuse, grief, and compassion fatigue
she's amazing remembers everything makes your feelings heard and provides different solutions and ideas for problems
Written on Apr 22, 2023 after therapy with Joy for 1 month on issues concerning depression, stress, anxiety, relationship issues, family conflicts, grief, self esteem, career difficulties, coping with life changes, coaching, and adhd
Joy is a light at the end of the tunnel! She is a great listener. She helps me gain more clarity and challenges my status quo by getting me out of my comfort zone. She is always responsive and ensures my questions are answered rather than rushing a conversation.
I always look forward to meeting her every week as she is, as her name implies, "JOY"!
Written on Apr 03, 2023 after therapy with Joy for 4 months on issues concerning stress, anxiety, relationship issues, coping with life changes, and compassion fatigue
I love working with Joy! She is very easy to talk to and supports me by listening, providing truthful feedback, and helps me navigate my emotions while providing me tools to handle the daily stressors of life.
Written on Mar 27, 2023 after therapy with Joy for 5 months on issues concerning self esteem
I have recommended BetterHelp to numerous people I know!
Written on Feb 16, 2023 after therapy with Joy for 2 years on issues concerning depression, stress, anxiety, addictions, family conflicts, intimacy-related issues, self esteem, and compassion fatigue
Joy has helped me to listen to myself more, helped me see that I can and should trust myself. In doing so I am learning what my truth feels like and this is helping inform some of my boundaries. I guess I am learning about what works and what doesn’t. I think I’m finding even more of my voice!
Written on Dec 01, 2022 after therapy with Joy for 5 months on issues concerning addictions, lgbt, relationship issues, trauma and abuse, intimacy-related issues, bipolar disorder, and adhd
Joy is very experienced and understanding and will give you guidance on the most challenging things in your life life no one else can.
Written on Nov 16, 2022 after therapy with Joy for 1 year and 1 month on issues concerning stress, anxiety, relationship issues, intimacy-related issues, self esteem, anger management, career difficulties, coping with life changes, and coaching
Joy is a fantastic therapist that is able to see the bigger picture, clarify and put into understandable terms what I am struggling with, and does a great job of finding and addressing the core issue.
Written on Oct 21, 2022 after therapy with Joy for 2 years and 9 months on issues concerning depression, stress, anxiety, addictions, relationship issues, family conflicts, trauma and abuse, grief, intimacy-related issues, self esteem, and career difficulties
Joy has helped me reframe the way I think about and approach problems in my daily life. She is very resourceful and can usually offer a worksheet, a website, or whatever is appropriate for the situation. One of the qualities that drew me to her as a therapist initially was that her profile said she uses humor, and that made it so easy for me to feel comfortable sharing and bringing my own situation into perspective. Joy has a keen ability to talk through a situation, allow for my tangents, and then guide me back to original topic. I'm so grateful to have worked with Joy! I would recommend her highly.
Written on Oct 05, 2022 after therapy with Joy for 2 years and 10 months on issues concerning family conflicts, self esteem, career difficulties, coping with life changes, and coaching
Joy is knowledgeable and kind yet straight forward and encouraging! She is inspirational and truly a JOY to work with!!!
Written on Sep 22, 2022 after therapy with Joy for 3 weeks on issues concerning depression, stress, anxiety, addictions, relationship issues, family conflicts, trauma and abuse, parenting issues, self esteem, and coping with life changes
She has been extremely helpful in giving me insight and love the homework
Written on Sep 20, 2022 after therapy with Joy for 1 month on issues concerning depression, stress, anxiety, relationship issues, family conflicts, trauma and abuse, self esteem, and compassion fatigue
I did some research on which therapist is right for me. Finally, I found Joy and I believe I made the right choice to go with her. She is a great listener and could called out some issues quickly from my complicated situations quickly after a couple sessions. And she started to offer some skills for me to practice. Hope I can live a better and happier life after get all the issues straighten out. Thank you Joy for all your help and responsiveness!! Look forward to our next session!
Written on Sep 17, 2022 after therapy with Joy for 2 weeks on issues concerning stress, anxiety, family conflicts, trauma and abuse, anger management, and coping with life changes
Joy combines experience and maturity with a no nonsense practicality.
Written on Sep 16, 2022 after therapy with Joy for 6 months on issues concerning coping with life changes
Joy is a great listener and provided good resources for my particular situation. I really appreciate her warmth, humor, insight and knowledge! I highly recommend her.
Written on Sep 02, 2022 after therapy with Joy for 1 month on issues concerning stress, anxiety, relationship issues, family conflicts, trauma and abuse, grief, intimacy-related issues, self esteem, coping with life changes, and adhd
Joy is a talented, knowledgeable, no nonsense therapist She gets right to the issues, makes strong useful suggestions and has helped me quickly clarify issues and directly deal. I am highly impressed.
Written on Jul 25, 2022 after therapy with Joy for 1 month on issues concerning relationship issues, family conflicts, and intimacy-related issues
Joy is a fantastic therapist- she is empathetic and understanding while also challenging me where appropriate and helpful. She pushes me to succeed in my relationships, both familial, romantic, and professional.
Written on Jul 07, 2022 after therapy with Joy for 3 months on issues concerning stress, anxiety, relationship issues, family conflicts, grief, and coping with life changes
She is wonderful!
Written on Jun 27, 2022 after therapy with Joy for 4 weeks on issues concerning depression, stress, anxiety, relationship issues, trauma and abuse, grief, self esteem, and coping with life changes
I am so happy to have Joy as my therapist.
Written on Jun 20, 2022 after therapy with Joy for 2 months on issues concerning depression, stress, anxiety, and relationship issues
Joy has been incredibly helpful in the short time I’ve been working with her, I am deeply grateful to have her support
Written on Jun 06, 2022 after therapy with Joy for 2 weeks on issues concerning depression, stress, anxiety, addictions, relationship issues, trauma and abuse, eating disorders, parenting issues, and self esteem
Joy is, well, a joy! I've had numerous therapists over the years and Joy is one of the best I've come across. She really helps put things in perspective and helps me look at things from another angle.
Written on Apr 08, 2022 after therapy with Joy for 4 weeks on issues concerning depression, stress, anxiety, lgbt, relationship issues, family conflicts, trauma and abuse, grief, parenting issues, self esteem, career difficulties, coping with life changes, compassion fatigue, and adhd
Kind and knowledgeable
Written on Mar 21, 2022 after therapy with Joy for 1 month on issues concerning stress, anxiety, relationship issues, family conflicts, parenting issues, coping with life changes, and compassion fatigue
Joy is easily the best therapist I have ever had. She is insightful, compassionate, and humorous! She seems to know everything and has helped me to successfully wrangle anxiety, depression, trauma, and codependency. Her expertise and wisdom are just incredible. I am so grateful to have found her.
Written on Feb 03, 2022 after therapy with Joy for 1 year and 5 months on issues concerning depression, stress, anxiety, relationship issues, family conflicts, trauma and abuse, coping with life changes, and compassion fatigue
Joy is great!!
Written on Dec 13, 2021 after therapy with Joy for 1 month on issues concerning depression, stress, anxiety, relationship issues, self esteem, and bipolar disorder
Joy has made me realize how important talking to someone really is. She's incredible.
Written on Dec 07, 2021 after therapy with Joy for 1 month on issues concerning stress, anxiety, self esteem, and anger management
Joy brings an honest, straight forward approach to her sessions. I really appreciate her candor and her focus on practical applications in addressing my issues. She has helped me tremendously.
Written on Dec 05, 2021 after therapy with Joy for 2 years on issues concerning relationship issues, family conflicts, intimacy-related issues, and career difficulties
Joy is incredible. Every session leaves me feeling so grateful to have found her. I would highly recommend her to anyone seeking therapy.
Written on Nov 05, 2021 after therapy with Joy for 2 weeks on issues concerning depression, stress, anxiety, addictions, relationship issues, family conflicts, trauma and abuse, intimacy-related issues, eating disorders, self esteem, career difficulties, coping with life changes, and coaching
Thank you! Joy is truly instrumental at being able to get at the heart behind the question (the real issue) in a matter of little time. I am impressed with how quickly she distills information to help the person get to that A-ha Moment on their own. Thank you, Joy, for also providing me tangible actions and next steps to move my life forward. She got me out of a rough time and was like the sunshine that parted my mental clouds. Highly recommend.
Written on Oct 13, 2021 after therapy with Joy for 2 months on issues concerning stress, anxiety, relationship issues, and self esteem
Joy is such a gift! I have learned so much about myself and my marriage through her careful listening, questions and advice. She is a game changer and real gift to my life!
Written on Jul 16, 2021 after therapy with Joy for 2 weeks on issues concerning relationship issues, and family conflicts
I've been to many therapist over the last decade. I was beginning to think therapy wasn't really for me because I didn't get a lot out of it. Joy Nussen has changed that for me. She's helped guide me through some very challenging situations and emotional history with a kind but firm hand. She challenges me in just the right way, which has been instrumental for my growth and healing. Joy may not be the right fit for everyone but her style is exactly what I was looking for. I can not thank her enough for helping me onto the path I'm walking now. Full five stars!
Written on Jul 12, 2021 after therapy with Joy for 10 months on issues concerning depression, stress, anxiety, relationship issues, family conflicts, trauma and abuse, grief, intimacy-related issues, self esteem, and coping with life changes
Joy Nussen has been an amazing to partner with. I feel she is well equipped to help me work through much of what life throws in my path by offering support, comfort and providing me with a plethora of additional tools to help me smartly and healthily navigate my way. She is insightful, patient and honest and helps me to this be way with myself as well. I am very thankful for the help Joy has given me and look forward to continuing to work with her.
Written on Mar 12, 2021 after therapy with Joy for 7 months on issues concerning depression, stress, anxiety, family conflicts, trauma and abuse, intimacy-related issues, eating disorders, and self esteem
Joy is an incredible counselor and has helped me with a lot this year. She has been a reliable and attentive individual to all my concerns whether big or small. I am extremely grateful for her counseling and her genuine concern for my well being and growth.
Written on Oct 19, 2020 after therapy with Joy for 9 months on issues concerning depression, stress, anxiety, addictions, relationship issues, family conflicts, trauma and abuse, self esteem, coping with life changes, and adhd
joy is fantastic. she’s honest and straightforward. she tells you want you need to hear to heal.
Written on Oct 12, 2020 after therapy with Joy for 1 month on issues concerning depression, stress, anxiety, addictions, relationship issues, trauma and abuse, grief, self esteem, and career difficulties
Joy listens and understands things that I have not said about how I am feeling. She is extremely insightful, empathetic and attentive. I love working with her to resolve the problems that I have. It makes me confident that I will heal my trauma and learn to understand myself more.
Written on Oct 08, 2020 after therapy with Joy for 1 month on issues concerning relationship issues, trauma and abuse, self esteem, anger management, and coping with life changes
I have been working with Joy since March and she has helped me change and manage my emotions in so many different aspects of my life. From family, work, romantic relationships, a loved one with addiction, the craziness of the current world... I don't know if I would have my head on straight without her. She has a been a true blessing in teaching me to take care of myself.
Written on Oct 07, 2020 after therapy with Joy for 6 months on issues concerning relationship issues
Joy is an amazing person and very educated in her field.
Written on Sep 27, 2020 after therapy with Joy for 3 months on issues concerning depression, stress, anxiety, trauma and abuse, grief, intimacy-related issues, self esteem, and coping with life changes
I appreciate Joy very much. I’ve only done a few sessions with her but she really knows how to dig deep into your traumas and unfold each and every one. Be prepared to be hit with facts when working with Joy. She is super straight up which i love.
Written on Sep 24, 2020 after therapy with Joy for 2 weeks on issues concerning depression, stress, anxiety, relationship issues, family conflicts, grief, intimacy-related issues, parenting issues, self esteem, career difficulties, and coping with life changes
I highly recommend Joy Nussen. She has a rare blend of wisdom, empathy, and positivity that I find to be extremely helpful.
Written on Aug 27, 2020 after therapy with Joy for 4 months on issues concerning relationship issues
Joy is very attentive and understanding. She has very good suggestions and useful tools that help me.
Written on Aug 26, 2020 after therapy with Joy for 3 weeks on issues concerning relationship issues, self esteem, career difficulties, and coping with life changes
Joy Nussen
Is great she listens, really helps to clear stuff up,
very good support
Very happy with her work.
Written on Jul 27, 2020 after therapy with Joy for 3 months on issues concerning depression, stress, anxiety, relationship issues, grief, self esteem, anger management, career difficulties, coping with life changes, coaching, and adhd
Joy has helped me so much in the last year. 2019 was a year of multiple losses for me, so I needed a lot of help with the grief and questions that came with it. I learned a lot about processing grief, setting boundaries clearly, and understanding my familial messaging. I don't think I would have been able to make such big strides in the past months without her help, and I am so grateful for the time and energy she gave in helping me! Thank you, Joy!
Written on Jul 27, 2020 after therapy with Joy for 10 months on issues concerning family conflicts, and grief
Joy has helped me tremendously over the last few months. She was direct and offered tangible activities and handouts that were very helpful. She was able to ask questions that uncovered underlying issues. Joy is a very skilled therapist and I would recommend her to anyone needing some help in getting past issues and ready to find relief.
Written on Jul 23, 2020 after therapy with Joy for 2 months on issues concerning depression, grief, and self esteem
AUTHENTIC! Honest, compassionate, understanding and so helpful. I’ve only had one session so far (already scheduled my second with her!) and I am already feeling like she might be the one to really help me heal. She hears me, not just listens; giving me the right tools and tips for what works best. I am so grateful!
Written on May 19, 2020 after therapy with Joy for 4 days on issues concerning stress, anxiety, addictions, relationship issues, family conflicts, trauma and abuse, grief, intimacy-related issues, parenting issues, self esteem, compassion fatigue, and adhd
Joy Nussen is the best thing that has happen to my life. She listens and gives very constructive was to help and if you are truly ready to help yourself she will provide all the necessary tools. So glad I found the perfect counselor for my needs.
Written on May 04, 2020 after therapy with Joy for 5 months on issues concerning depression, addictions, relationship issues, family conflicts, grief, sleeping disorders, parenting issues, and coping with life changes
What I like about BetterHelp is that it's easy to "shop around" for the right fit. I found Joy on my third try. I really like working with her. She takes me as I am and works with me. She listens and offers insight and resources without being pushy or judgmental. She's a good egg, and that's important. I trust her.
Written on Apr 22, 2020 after therapy with Joy for 4 months on issues concerning depression, stress, anxiety, self esteem, anger management, and career difficulties
Joy is great!!!!
Written on Mar 18, 2020 after therapy with Joy for 5 months on issues concerning stress, anxiety
Joy is awesome!
Written on Feb 19, 2020 after therapy with Joy for 2 months on issues concerning depression, stress, anxiety, relationship issues, and self esteem
My first experience with counseling was with Joy and I immediately saw results and improvements from our first sessions. It's very easy to share things with her, she's extremely kind, calm, and patient. When I have a tangled mess of emotions she can untangle them. I appreciate her wit and charm, she is able to get deeper into an issue efficiently and tactfully. I highly recommend Joy!
Written on Feb 17, 2020 after therapy with Joy for 2 weeks on issues concerning depression, stress, anxiety, relationship issues, career difficulties, coping with life changes, coaching, and compassion fatigue
So far we have only had one phone session, as I’m really new, but in the short time I’ve been on Better Health she has been a wonderful resource and I really appreciate Joy taking the time to listen to me and help me with MY problems and not just regurgitate some genetic quotes. She’s a real person who I feel cares. And I like that.
Written on Jan 17, 2020 after therapy with Joy for 2 weeks on issues concerning depression, stress, anxiety, family conflicts, self esteem, and anger management
I've only had 2 sessions with Joy so far but in those 2 sessions I've felt something shift inside of me. I have an understanding of myself and a respect for what I've been through that I've never had before. She has help me put that into action and notice how it affects my actions and self talk daily. I had been putting off therapy for years, I'm so glad I got the courage to start BetterHelp and even happier that I chose Joy as my counselor.
Written on Dec 27, 2019 after therapy with Joy for 2 weeks on issues concerning stress, anxiety, relationship issues, parenting issues, self esteem, and coping with life changes
Joy is warm and welcoming. I only ever spoke with her via text but felt her compassion nevertheless. She was encouraging and helped me think through many if my issues to be able to see them more clearly.
Written on Dec 02, 2019 after therapy with Joy for 2 months on issues concerning stress, anxiety, grief, and career difficulties
I have had two sessions with Joy and am so appreciative of the self-awareness and strategies I've gained. Joy is supportive and has incredibly powerful insight, and what I love most is that she will challenge you. She takes an active approach and has really helped me to uncover and break through things that I didn't even realize were holding me back. I recommend her very highly.
Written on Nov 12, 2019 after therapy with Joy for 2 weeks on issues concerning relationship issues, trauma and abuse, intimacy-related issues, self esteem, coaching, and adhd
Joy is no-nonsense, empathic, helpful, and skilled. She seems to be very tuned in to what people need. She makes helpful suggestions, is patient, and is available when I reach out. I would recommend her wholeheartedly.
Written on Oct 10, 2019 after therapy with Joy for 3 weeks on issues concerning depression
Joy didn't waste any time and cut right to the heart of the matter. I've never had a therapist listen so acutely and quickly, and that allowed us to dive deep on our very first call. Not only was I impressed, but our conversation also brought me a new perspective I hadn't previously considered about myself. It was a very thought-provoking discussion that is still producing fruit. I wholeheartedly recommend her, thank you Joy!
Written on Oct 08, 2019 after therapy with Joy for 2 weeks on issues concerning self esteem, and coaching
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